Topic-icon Open-Graph-Stories based on Usergroups / ACL

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11 years 8 months ago #47121 by julwol
Hi everybody,

one more presales-question:
I am running my website with PayPlans and I sell memberships. I would love to be able to handele the Open-Graph-Stories based on the subscription-status (can be done with usergroup also).

Meaning:

- Normal user pays normal price - he can choose to post an action to facebook or not
- User can choose "reduced price", but then every action is posted to facebook and he has no choose in "not posting" it

Is this possible with JFB-Connect?

All the best, Julian!
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11 years 8 months ago #47131 by alzander
We don't have that level of granularity over whether stories are posted by the user. Right now, actions are based on how you've configured them for all users. So, for example, if you have an Open Graph Action for "User uploaded a photo" (in JomSocial), that would trigger whenever any user uploads a public photo. If you wanted to add a check to see if the user was in a specific group first, it wouldn't be difficult, and we could help provide some code to do so. However, you'd need to do that in every Open Graph plugin that you want to have that level of control over and you'd have to make those changes with every upgrade of JFBConnect.

I hope that helps explain,
Alex
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11 years 8 months ago #47138 by julwol
Hi Alex,

if it is handeled with (regular) plugins that makes it easier. I can simply use the ACL of the plugins and then give access to the plugin only for the users in the usergroup that I need.
But it will still be tricky ... I would guess, not every action has its own plugin. I would for example like to have an action for commenting a K2-Article for all users, but an action for reading a K2-Article only for the reduced price users.

Is it possible to turn actions on and off with tags? In that case, I could wrap a tag for an automatical read-share into a tag that only is shown to a special usergroup. This would make the read-actions on articles much easier.

However, your answer brings me into another question:
How are users handeled that don´t want to share an action?

For example: When I put the "read-action" on a K2-Article, will the facebook-popup always pop up when the user reads an article? Has the user any chance to generally deny sharings to facebook?

What I have in mind is for example a user that has no facebook-account. I don´t want to tease him with facebook-popups on every single page.

All the best, Julian!
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11 years 8 months ago #47143 by alzander

if it is handeled with (regular) plugins that makes it easier. I can simply use the ACL of the plugins and then give access to the plugin only for the users in the usergroup that I need.
But it will still be tricky ... I would guess, not every action has its own plugin. I would for example like to have an action for commenting a K2-Article for all users, but an action for reading a K2-Article only for the reduced price users.

What you mention wouldn't work. The Open Graph plugins are regular Joomla plugins. However, they must be set as "Public". They set the Open Graph tags on the page as well as triggering the actions for your users. Since Facebook periodically scans your page to check the tags, and they are 'guests', the plugins need to always be inserting the proper og:xyz tags into the page.

Is it possible to turn actions on and off with tags? In that case, I could wrap a tag for an automatical read-share into a tag that only is shown to a special usergroup. This would make the read-actions on articles much easier.

You can easily create your own actions and use a button for the user to click to intentionally say "I read this article". In addition, by using a button like that, you can set the "Explicitly Shared" parameter, which means that Facebook gives it a ton more weight because the user went out of their way to share it, instead of it being automatically posted on their behalf.

There isn't a way to toggle the "On page load" actions in JFBConnect. The "On Page Load" actions trigger after a user has simply been on a page for 10 seconds or more, like reading, watching or listening.

How are users handeled that don´t want to share an action?

During the registration/authentication process from Facebook, there's a permission to share the users actions back to Facebook. If they decline that option, their content won't be shared. In addition to that, as noted above, you can create your own Custom Actions, like "I saw this movie" or "I want this product" to any page where a user can intentionally share it back to their Timeline.

Additionally, when you configure an action, you can allow the user to toggle (on the front end) if they want that type of action to post to their timeline. Then, in the user profile area of Joomla, there are links to JFBConnect where they can select which actions are allowed to post (like uploading a photo, etc).

For example: When I put the "read-action" on a K2-Article, will the facebook-popup always pop up when the user reads an article? Has the user any chance to generally deny sharings to facebook?

For consumption actions like "Reading an article", per Facebook's Application Policies, there is a notices that appears in the bottom right whenever an action is posted which has:
* A notice that an action was posted to their timeline
* A link to delete the most recent post
* A link to delete the most recent post *and* disable all future actions of that type.

What I have in mind is for example a user that has no facebook-account. I don´t want to tease him with facebook-popups on every single page.

You won't. The only thing the user would see on the front-end is the login with Facebook button before they login. If they login another way and have never connected their Facebook account, they won't see any popups or options to share unless you put them on the page. The notifications of actions and such will only show to users that have Facebook accounts.

I hope that helps,
Alex
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11 years 8 months ago #47147 by julwol
Hi Alex,

please excuse, I really have to specify the questions a little bit more.

The Open Graph plugins are regular Joomla plugins. However, they must be set as "Public". They set the Open Graph tags on the page as well as triggering the actions for your users.


I will use the OG-Metadata from sh404. It´s because I want to keem the Metadata togehter.
That means: Page-Title, Page-Description and Image are comming from sh404.

So would it work to limit the JFB-Connect-Plugins to a usergroup in that case?

You can easily create your own actions and use a button for the user to click to intentionally say "I read this article". In addition, by using a button like that, you can set the "Explicitly Shared" parameter, which means that Facebook gives it a ton more weight because the user went out of their way to share it, instead of it being automatically posted on their behalf.


Yes, but the question was different.
The background is:
I will have different usertypes. They will be sorted by jpayplans and the EasySocial-Profile-Types.
In my szenario, there is one usergroup that should share nearly everything automatically. And another usergroup, that should only share explicitely.

Bouth have a use:
- The automatic sharing is for well-known-users that want to support me without the need of clicking any buttons.
- The explicitely shared stuff should be for the most users. It would be okay, if a few (!) things will be shared au tomatically, but definitiely not everything.

This is why I ask about how this can be handeled.

There isn't a way to toggle the "On page load" actions in JFBConnect. The "On Page Load" actions trigger after a user has simply been on a page for 10 seconds or more, like reading, watching or listening.


You have a "on-the-site-override" for OG-Tags.
This is what I mean: Can an automatically shared "read-Action" be overriden on a site?
The solution would be: I place the normal "share-button" into the article, and in addition to that I insert an "automatical override" into the article, that is shown only to a special usergroup.

During the registration/authentication process from Facebook, there's a permission to share the users actions back to Facebook. If they decline that option, their content won't be shared. In addition to that, as noted above, you can create your own Custom Actions, like "I saw this movie" or "I want this product" to any page where a user can intentionally share it back to their Timeline.


Does that mean:
Once they declined an automatical share, JFB will not try to share something automatically again?

Additionally, when you configure an action, you can allow the user to toggle (on the front end) if they want that type of action to post to their timeline. Then, in the user profile area of Joomla, there are links to JFBConnect where they can select which actions are allowed to post (like uploading a photo, etc).


Meaning: The user can decide by default and will not be disturbed by popups when he chooses not to share?

All the best, Julian!
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11 years 8 months ago #47151 by alzander

So would it work to limit the JFB-Connect-Plugins to a usergroup in that case?

No. JFBConnect sets more than just the title, image and description tags. For Open Graph Actions, the og:type needs to be set to set the type of page (article, image, etc). That value must be public when Facebook's crawlers come to scan the page or else the action will not work for the given type of page.

Bouth have a use:
- The automatic sharing is for well-known-users that want to support me without the need of clicking any buttons.
- The explicitely shared stuff should be for the most users. It would be okay, if a few (!) things will be shared au tomatically, but definitiely not everything.

Again, you have multiple options on how to do things, but you won't be able to do both of what your asking. We don't have ways to allow for the automated actions on some pages. What you could do is:
* Have a button/image/link on your articles that say "I read this" and the user could choose to post it to their feed. Again, this would be an explicit action and show up with a much, much higher priority than automated sharing. Additionally, with this option, a popup can appear where the user can choose to add a comment about the article as well as tag friends or even their place. That may not make sense for reading, but it can for other actions.
* For non-consumption actions, like posting a new photo or joining a group or leaving a comment, you can configure the action to be disable-able by the user. That way, they can choose if the action is automatically shared.

You have a "on-the-site-override" for OG-Tags.
This is what I mean: Can an automatically shared "read-Action" be overriden on a site?
The solution would be: I place the normal "share-button" into the article, and in addition to that I insert an "automatical override" into the article, that is shown only to a special usergroup.

Currently, you can override the Open Graph tags. You can't override the actions that are posted back to Facebook. The 'tags' describe the page to Facebook. The actions are what users 'do' on your site.

There are 3 groups of actions that can happen on your site:
* Extension specific actions: These are things like joining a group (JomSocial, EasySocial), Leaving a Comment (JReviews, EasyBlog) and various other things, those happen once they are configured by you and can be disabled by the user (if you allow them too).
* Consumption Actions: These happen after the page loads and are automatically posted after the user has been on a page for a set number of seconds, like reading, listening or watching. These happen automatically on the content you've configured them to appear on (either by article ID, category or some custom parameters). These can, again, be disabled by the user if you want to let them choose not to have them post automatically.
* Custom Actions: These are buttons you can place in any page of your site. They will have things like "I ate this" or "I want this" or "I did this". The user can add a message, friends and place and have it posted explicitly to their feed. These are added to a page with our SCSocial Widget module or with a {JFBCAction} tag you place on the page.

With the Custom Actions, you should be able to customize who sees the button and who doesn't. The other options are much more automatic and not something you'd easily have ACL limits on.

Once they declined an automatical share, JFB will not try to share something automatically again?

It won't try to share the same type of action again. If there are other actions you've configured, the user would have to choose to not have those types of actions shared as well. You (the admin) can choose what actions are disable-able by the user as well so that some actions are always posted and they don't have the option to disable them. A good example would be the Custom Actions. Since those are initiated by the user, there's no point in letting them disable them.

Meaning: The user can decide by default and will not be disturbed by popups when he chooses not to share?

Correct. There won't be any popups normally unless the user initiates a Custom Action by clicking a button or you (the admin) have configured a consumption action to occur on a page the user visits and sits on for a set number of seconds. In this case, a popup will appear to let the user know an action has been posted to Facebook. If they disable that type of action from happening again, they wont' ever see another popup.

I hope that helps,
Alex
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11 years 8 months ago #47159 by julwol
Hi Alex,

There are 3 groups of actions that can happen on your site:
* Extension specific actions: These are things like joining a group (JomSocial, EasySocial), Leaving a Comment (JReviews, EasyBlog) and various other things, those happen once they are configured by you and can be disabled by the user (if you allow them too).
* Consumption Actions: These happen after the page loads and are automatically posted after the user has been on a page for a set number of seconds, like reading, listening or watching. These happen automatically on the content you've configured them to appear on (either by article ID, category or some custom parameters). These can, again, be disabled by the user if you want to let them choose not to have them post automatically.
* Custom Actions: These are buttons you can place in any page of your site. They will have things like "I ate this" or "I want this" or "I did this". The user can add a message, friends and place and have it posted explicitly to their feed. These are added to a page with our SCSocial Widget module or with a {JFBCAction} tag you place on the page.


This was great for my understanding!

And this is easy to explain what would be great for me:
Being able to insert consumption actions by a tag!

Here is the reason why:

- Extension-specific-Actions are more complex. It would still be nice to have more control, but it would be a lot of work and many more options for the users, so it will get more confusing.

- Custom actions are controlled by buttons. So they don´t "harm" anybody, as they are only buttons that only react if somebody clicks on it.

- Consumption-Actions are surely the most anoying things. This is why I want to have some more backend-control about who will get this actions.
I like to have one usergroup, that agrees to post all consuption-actions, and as a thank you they get more privilegues.
They should not be forced to all the time click a button. If they agree "Do it automatically", it should be done. But if this process is completely handeled by Facebook, I can´t control it in Joomla and I can´t give them priviluegues.

With a tag it would get easy:
I could wrap the tag into a usergroup-tag and the automatical consumption-share-tag would only be shown for the usergroup.

And this is why I wonder if it would be possible to have an {JFBCConsumption}-Tag also.

Do you understand what I mean?

And again: I definitely vote for "clear backend".
I am very happy to be able to nail it down to a very simple process. The only neccecary thing would be the {JFBCConsumption}-Tag which would work in the same way the {JFBCAction}-Tag already does.
;-)

All the best, Julian!
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