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Topic-icon Presales Question about Facebook Open Graph Stories/Actions

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11 years 8 months ago #47120 by julwol
Hi everybody,

I have some questions about how to integrate sh404 with JFB-Connect.

I want to get the "Facebook Open Graph Stories" on my website. I think it´s the same as "Open Graph Actions", but I am not sure. It´s the stuff when an activity is posted on Facebook "User has read the article ___" or "User has logged to the site".

In the moment I use Joomla 3.x with sh404, JomSocial, Easyblog and some other stuff. Maybe I switch to EasySocial.

I want to stay with sh404 for all Metadata-Information. I really like sh404, the support is outstanding and it makes sense to me to keep all Search-Engine-Relevant Data togehter. This means: Open-Graph-Data for page-informations should be managed with sh404.

That for I have to activate the FB-plugin of sh404. But I also will need to activate the JFB-Connect-Plugins to be able to use the Open-Graph-STories.

The question is now:

- Does it work and makes it sense to handele the OG-Metadata with sh404 while the "actions" are handeled by JFB-Connect?

- Should I better disable all Facebook-Plugins of sh404 and let JFB-Connect handele ALL Facebook-Data?

All the best, Julian!
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11 years 8 months ago #47130 by alzander
JFBConnect needs to manage the Open Graph tags on a page for sharing and, especially, for Open Graph actions (which are the same as Open Graph Stories). Things like the "Type" of the page must be set by JFBConnect to ensure that it's correct for any actions that JFBConnect is also triggering against your content.

Currently, JFBConnect will remove and replace other og:title or og:description tags that are set on the page and replace it with the ones that JFBConnect automatically creates. That's something we should be able to help you override if you'd prefer to have sh404SEF manage your title and description tags. The other tags, like type tags, would still need to be managed by JFBConnect, which should work ok for you.

I hope that helps explain,
Alex
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11 years 8 months ago #47139 by julwol
Hi Alex,

as far as I could see from the documetations and descriptions, JFB-Connect takes the OG-Metadata automatically and for adjusting it I would need to manualy place the tags into the article.

While JFB-Connect is perfect for all the connection-stuff, sh404 is the perfect extension to manage Metadata of websites. While many users are using sh404 (or JomSef or other components like this), wouldn´t it make sense to integrate an option to deactivate the Metadata-Tags (Title, Description, Image,...)?

If a webmaster is taking care about SEO and Networking, he will have to do bouth: Manage Meta-Tags and Open-Graph-Tags. So the basic what he will need to use is a SEF-Component. And the management of pages should not be the job of JFB-Connect. While any manual correction has to be integrated with tags in the article itself, I think it is absurd to delete other components OG-Tags in the same moment.

What do you think?

All the best, Julian!
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11 years 8 months ago #47144 by alzander

If a webmaster is taking care about SEO and Networking, he will have to do bouth: Manage Meta-Tags and Open-Graph-Tags. So the basic what he will need to use is a SEF-Component. And the management of pages should not be the job of JFB-Connect. While any manual correction has to be integrated with tags in the article itself, I think it is absurd to delete other components OG-Tags in the same moment.

It's not a bad idea to have an option to 'skip' the title and description tags that may be set from an SEO extension. It's simply never been requested before in the 3+ years we've been setting Open Graph tags in content. Generally, our users have seemed very happy with our automated options because JFBConnect gives a lot of flexibility over how to automatically set the tags. You can take the first 50 words or first 200 characters of an article, or any other configurable amount *or* choose to use the meta tags that are set *or* set your own tags on a per-page or per-section basis. This 'just' works', especially if you're already setting meta tags using an SEO manager. JFBConnect can just use those.

We may look into something like you're suggesting in the future, but it's just not a high priority for us because there hasn't been much interest in doing so.

I hope that helps explain,
Alex
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11 years 8 months ago #47149 by julwol
Hi Alex,

It's not a bad idea to have an option to 'skip' the title and description tags that may be set from an SEO extension


I totally agree with you. JFB is a GREAT component with outstanding support and impressive developement.
I simply think, the task "management of meta-tags" is not the job of JFB. It´s great, that JFB can do it with customized tags, but ...

... a SEO-extension needs to handele all Google-Meta-Tags. It´s just logical ... I personally would mostly tend to use the same text in OG:description as well in Google-Site-Description. Same with the page title. This is why I think, it´s "another component´s job".

It's simply never been requested before in the 3+ years we've been setting Open Graph tags in content.


I think it would be very easy to make it myself. I just would have to comment out a few lines.
But I think, it is also very, very easy for you to pull that as an option into the backend. And in that case, it would be a nice new feature that maybe other users will also like. That´s why I posted it to you. ;-)
(can you confirm that it´s just some lines to comment out?)

You can take the first 50 words or first 200 characters of an article, or any other configurable amount *or* choose to use the meta tags that are set *or* set your own tags on a per-page or per-section basis. This 'just' works', especially if you're already setting meta tags using an SEO manager. JFBConnect can just use those.


That´s right.
And I would handele it exact that way, if .... there where no images.

The images are the problem for me. I don´t want to have the "first image of the page" as the image shown in facebook. And through the Metadata from the SEO-Component I have no control over the images. To control the images I would have to put a OG-Tag in every single page, and this is what I don´t like to do.

Generally, our users have seemed very happy with our automated options because JFBConnect gives a lot of flexibility


Yes, and that´s why I like to repeat: Your component is great (even if my subscription is not active in the moment).
There are a couple of Joomla-Developers that I know I can totally trust. They deliver great code, creat components, great support.

You are definitely one of them.
And to be fair, you are not alone.

sh404 is supported great by anything digital. EasySocial by Stackideas is great. AcyMailing by AcyBa is great.
This are some of my favorites and you are one of them.

Reason for my request is not, that I prefer another component. It´s really the matter, that I think "Management of OG:Tags" is so close to "Management of SEO-Tags" that I see no sense in separating them. Your component does exactly the right thing: Taking the MetaData itself automatically. This automatic would perfectly fit into the system ... if there would not be the images, that can´t be taken au tomatically, because they don´t exist in Google-SEO. ;-)

All the best, Julian!
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11 years 8 months ago #47152 by alzander

... a SEO-extension needs to handele all Google-Meta-Tags. It´s just logical ... I personally would mostly tend to use the same text in OG:description as well in Google-Site-Description. Same with the page title. This is why I think, it´s "another component´s job".

I understand. That's also why JFBConnect will default to using the standard meta title and description for your pages. I can see the benefit of having an option for having JFBConnect skip the title/description tags in the future, but it's just not there now.

nice new feature that maybe other users will also like. That´s why I posted it to you. ;-)
(can you confirm that it´s just some lines to comment out?)

Yes, it wouldn't be too difficult, but it may be more than a few lines since our plugins set the tags and JFBConnect then parses through all the different description tags that may have been set (meta tags, default tags, plugin tags) and chooses the best one. It wouldn't be difficult though.

As for a setting, it would be easy to add, and we may do it. We'd have to do further investigation on if we want to or not though. As noted, in 3 years, yours is the first request for it.. and we don't like adding settings that won't be used widely into our extensions. There's enough options already and simplicity (as much as possible) is important.

The images are the problem for me. I don´t want to have the "first image of the page" as the image shown in facebook. And through the Metadata from the SEO-Component I have no control over the images. To control the images I would have to put a OG-Tag in every single page, and this is what I don´t like to do.

JFBConnect has multiple options for the image: First image in the content, the 'main' image of the article, the category image and you can even set a site-wide 'default' image, which is used in case no image is set. That's good for a logo.

Beyond that, I'm not sure what you mean here. If your SEO Component doesn't control the image, that's another reason why JFBConnect is good to manage your tags. You may not love our options, but we do give you the flexibility over everything.. we try to make it automated, but you can override on a per page basis.. but maybe not how you want from an admin standpoint.

Your component does exactly the right thing: Taking the MetaData itself automatically. This automatic would perfectly fit into the system ... if there would not be the images, that can´t be taken au tomatically, because they don´t exist in Google-SEO. ;-)

We agree we have good flexibility in how the tags are set. Still not sure what you'd prefer to see done with the images though.

I definitely appreciate your comments toward our product and support though. This conversation is great to. I hope you don't think I'm shooting your ideas down either. Talking with our users is how 90% of our features are devised and implemented, and I'm sure something good will come out of this, even if just a few tweaks to our admin area and documentation.

Thanks,
Alex
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11 years 8 months ago #47158 by julwol
Hi Alex,

I hope you don't think I'm shooting your ideas down either.


I definitely don´t think you shoot my ideas down.
I appreciate it, that you don´t take feature-suggestions too easy. You have a really clear backend compared to some other extensions, and if you would simply jump on every idea, that would not be possible. I totally agree that a new option has to be thought over, even if it is an easy one, and it makes no sense to built an option, that only 0.1% of the users need, but the other 99.9% will be distracted.

In the case of the option to let the seo-component handele the OG:Tags this might be even easier, especially when you understand what I mean with the images.
I want to control the OG:Tags with the SEO-Component. But this is the behaviour that I already expect from the SEO-Component:

- Default use the Meta-Tags from the article also for Facebook
- Being able to manualy change that
- Having a place where all the meta-data is present

When you take the meta-data from the article itself, this is a good way.
It might be a little bit more perfect, if you could take it from the SEO-Component. In most cases, it is the same. This would make it possible to keep the JFB-Automatic-routine on, and still use the SEO-Component for management.

Now the problem is the image:
I like to define an image also if it is different from the images on the website. This can´t be done in the article, because Joomla does not allow to define an OG-Image in the article and the SEO-Component has the same problems as JFB: Which image should be taken? First of the page? Main Image?

In the SEO-Component I am able to define the image. (I haven´t checked it, but I expect it).
So if SFB would change the process slightly, the process could maybe get a little bit more perfect without the need of any other option:

- Scan the page for OG-Metatags built by a seo-component
- If present, take them
- If not present, to the process like it is now

This would make it possible to define any tag in the seo-component and still keeping the process of JFB active.
No setting neccecary at all. And I think it is a very logical process. If the user defines OG-Metatags somewhere, then the user has reasons for it and JFB should take them.
If not, the automatic routine is perfect.

What do you think?

Beyond that, I'm not sure what you mean here. If your SEO Component doesn't control the image, that's another reason why JFBConnect is good to manage your tags.


I expect my seo-component to do that, but I have not checked yet. ;-)
For better understanding I give you an example: Imagine a website built with Virtuemart.
For a good Social-Networking it should be clearly defined which product-image should be transfered to Facebook. And it´s not always "the first" or "the main" image of the site. Sometimes there are five product-images, but for the small thumbnail on Facebook it makes more sense to choose a different image then the main image of the product.

So to be precise, it makes sense to be able to define exact the image that I want.
The automatic process should work as usual, but I want to be able to see all data together in my seo-component and change the image if neccecary.
And in exactly that case, that I defined another image in my seo-component, JFB should not overwrite that information.

It´s a little bit the same as in the Tags like Title and Description:
I mostly don´t administrate the Metadata in the ARticle, I do it in my seo-component.
So if JFB looks up for the data in the article, it will not find any Metadata. But if it looks in the Seo-Component or on the output, it will find them, because my SEO-Component placed them.

All the best, Julian!
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